VENKATESAN Over the years we have participated in roundtables for this publication, there has been a huge emphasis on gender diversity. It is pleasing to see this emphasis and focus, and we have witnessed good progress being made by corporate Australia. We have not achieved all the milestones but we have seen significant progress.

What has helped gender diversity in Australia get to where it is today, especially in the last 10 years, is public, industry and regulatory pressure for improving the place of women in corporate leadership in Australia. This includes shareholder activism, public sector inquiries, recommendations from professional bodies, and advocacy from prominent individuals and organisations.

These things have clearly been very important in improving the place of women in corporate leadership – across executive leadership and board levels. I believe we are trying to make and have made some good progress in gender diversity.

TRIGONA NBN Co has continued to deliver on its gender equity objectives and initiatives, in line with its gender equity strategic plan. Key initiatives undertaken by the company include increasing the proportion of females in NBN’s field workforce. Through its dedicated women in telco traineeship programme, the company has achieved 76 per cent female hires appointed into customer field trainee roles in FY24. NBN encourages women to consider career pathways in science, technology, engineering and maths via its partnership with University of Technology Sydney.

NBN remains committed to achieving its target of 40 per cent females in management positions by 2025. As at financial year end 2024, the figure was 36.1 per cent compared with 34.3 per cent the prior year. Female representation in graduate intake increased to 70 per cent from 44 per cent as at 30 June 2024.

By promoting gender pay equity, NBN has now closed the pay gap between male and female employees. As at FY24, total fixed remuneration for women was 1.9 per cent higher than men.

LY Based on personal experience, women made up 23 per cent of my team in 2019 and now make up 30 per cent. Although this only adds a little more gender diversity, I think we took a bigger step toward breaking gender biases two years ago when we hired a female quantitative analyst, which was traditionally a male-dominated role.

As an observer to this hiring process, my perspective was that this was a noteworthy step forward for ANZ – because the bank was not just looking for candidates who resemble prior hires but for the best fit for the job, regardless of gender. I don’t believe there was an intention of breaking gender role biases in this hiring decision, however it unequivocally provided visual representation of women succeeding in male-dominated roles.

I view this as positive momentum to encourage the new wave of talent who are considering finance as a career – to know they have equal standing and are being well represented in middle and senior management.

LING My research uncovered that the percentage of women in executive leadership teams within ASX 200 companies has gone from 21 per cent to 30 per cent, CEOs from 8 per cent to 10 per cent, CFOs from 10 per cent to 19 per cent and the CEO pipeline from 11 per cent to 18 per cent.

My conclusion is that the trend is our friend and we should not get too gloomy. But if we were to give ourselves a rating, a C is probably right. It is great that we have the right trend but there is still a hell of a long way to go.

Another survey revealed that, at the current rate, gender equality will not be reached until the 2070s. We need to do more. I do not wish to be miserable about it because we are making great strides, but it is a very slow rate and we need to do more.

VENKATESAN Corporate Australia has done well to increase gender diversity over the past decade. However, while almost half of Australia’s population was born overseas, corporate boards in Australia lack cultural diversity. In fact, in 2022, though 37 per cent of Australia’s top 100 board seats were held by women, only 7 per cent were held by ethnic and cultural minorities. It is fascinating to note that gender diversity has progressed while ethnic diversity has been left behind.

Cultural diversity needs similar functions to those that have helped improve gender diversity: policy, government and industry focus, and, potentially, prominent individuals and organisations to raise their voices.

I believe government has a significant role, not only by drawing focus to this gap – noting that Australia’s population is only going to get more culturally diverse – but also influencing policy frameworks and putting pressure on corporate Australia.

The younger population is definitely more culturally savvy, diverse and accepting, and we need to cater to this generation. However, the effectiveness will greatly depend on who the government leverages to push this agenda. Let’s not forget that regulators and investors across the globe are interested in how companies are leveraging talent and culture to accelerate long-term success and enhance viability.

GIRARD Growing up in a French-speaking family in Canada, this discussion really resonates with me. I have just received my Australian citizenship after arriving in Australia five years ago, so it is even more meaningful.

Over the last five years, I have witnessed significant strides in Australia’s banking and finance sector regarding diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI). When I first joined as the chief executive of Women in Banking and Finance (WiBF), a lot of the focus initially was about getting representation on the leadership teams of several member organisations – this is the basic DEI framework.

More recently, there has been a shift toward a deeper, more holistic approach. Organisations are not only aiming for representation but are also investing in inclusive culture. A lot of our members are embedding DEI into their business strategies and setting specific targets beyond gender. They are also looking not only at the short term but the long term as well. Some of them are bringing forward open conversations on cultural diversity, disability inclusion and LGBTQIA+ representation.

Momentum has been built over the past few years, too. This has come with the growing understanding that DEI is not just nice to have but should be a strategic priority that positively affects performance and innovation within an organisation.

I’m so thrilled that WiBF gets to be part of this mission and vision to so many organisations across Australia: we currently represent more than 600,000 individuals around the country.

DAVE From a macro perspective, we need skilled and talented people who can work collaboratively across geographies, industries and cultures to drive innovative approaches to global challenges such as geopolitics, shifting global supply chains, technological advances, the energy transition and so forth.

The broader question for me is: how do we unlock this talent? We need to think about diversity in all its forms as the solutions to these challenges will require diversity of thought, experience, skills, backgrounds and perspectives. Gender and cultural diversity will be an important part of this. Focus on diversity in leadership teams and at board level is important because it normalises the need to leverage diversity in all its forms to drive a business forward.

Given Australia is a trading nation, our continued prosperity depends on engaging with international markets for growth and innovation. Our high-growth markets are in the Indo-Pacific region, and many of our businesses already have stakeholders within the region. These could be investors, regulators, partners, suppliers, customers or employees. To work effectively with them requires a high level of cultural understanding.

The fact that Australia is such a multicultural nation is a great foundation. We have people with the cultural understanding to navigate different markets. We need to find a way to unlock this as it is critical to our growth and success.

The next question is: how do we make it work? We do so by creating a culture that trusts, respects and values diversity, and provides the conditions for it to work effectively.

HO I’ve spent my life in Hong Kong, until last year when I lived in London. I moved to Sydney just last month. It is important that we are on the same page regarding how we define cultural diversity – there are so many ways it can be talked about. Ethnicity is the main one. But I know a lot of Australians with Chinese background, family or parents; do we call them Australian or Chinese? Other aspects of cultural diversity could be religion or beliefs.

The second point I’d like to mention regards understanding difference intuitively. When I joined ANZ in Hong Kong, I found that I was a bit different from a lot of people in the bank because I talked to headquarters a lot – meaning Australians. But I never felt isolated. This is the feeling of being different but at the same time being supported. Leadership is the key here.

THAKAR Cultural diversity is undoubtedly harder to measure in the same way as gender diversity. Additionally, generational shifts are becoming increasingly relevant as work teams grow to include more members of Gen Z. There is so much more for us to listen to, embrace and be inclusive of beyond just gender.

Different generations bring unique ways of thinking – which can be innovative, creative and confident. Reflecting on my own experience as the child of immigrants in the UK, our approach was very different. We were grateful to be there, worked hard, kept our heads down and didn’t really advocate for ourselves. Self-advocacy wasn’t part of our mindset then.

Today, we have such a wonderfully diverse group of individuals, each bringing their own perspectives. This is something I celebrate with joy. But we should note that with this diversity comes the need to find common ground as we all work and live in the same environment.

SIDHER It’s a great question. Culture is hard to simplify to one dimension or measure with one yardstick – especially in today’s globalised workforce. An amalgamation of national, ethnic, gender, linguistic and religious identity may still be inadequate to fully measure culture. The best solutions come from leadership awareness of the multifaceted nature of culture.

HO I’ve been at ANZ for 15 years and it has always had the largest footprint among the big-four Australian banks internationally. There is a very big team of people of very diverse nationalities. My sense is that cultural diversity has been managed intuitively within the bank.

To be honest, though, I’m not sure how to measure it. There are very explicit metrics for women in leadership. But, as we’ve established, culture is probably more difficult to define. The way we implement it is through a lot of training and then reinforcement through leadership.

YETSENGA Nearly 50 per cent of Australians have at least one parent born outside the country and one in five Australians has Asian cultural heritage, yet only 3 per cent of senior management positions are held by Asian Australians. It seems that we are not paying enough attention to cultural balance. What works cannot be determined or implemented until we acknowledge the scale of the challenge and how to broaden the diversity agenda beyond gender.

PERKOVIC As has been mentioned, cultural diversity is difficult because it comes in lots of forms. There needs to be an acknowledgement that cultural diversity is very difficult for businesses and, at the same time, while progress has been slow and is very challenging, some people are thinking about and acting on it.

I am often asked how to get started. For any business, it is about understanding clients, stakeholders, community groups and the makeup of who it is serving really well. It makes sense to then reflect their lived experience from a cultural perspective. In turn, this can help with business decisions, policy settings and governance – and everyone will prosper.

The challenge is the head count and recruitment process, especially when opportunities to add to a team or leadership are limited. If there is an opportunity to recruit, we should definitely have the cultural lens. But there are other ways I have witnessed work really well, such as adding people to a decision-making process to bring in cultural diversity of thought. It does not always mean a business has to recruit somebody.

The experience I always share about my banking career – although this happened some time ago – is when we were talking about migrant banking but none of the decision-makers around the table was a migrant. How do we understand, and have a lived experience of, the forms and process if we are not the ones completing the forms? I challenged the group on this point, and the outcome was to change the makeup of the group to include people with banking experience and the lived experience, to be able to make the right decisions. This resulted in better outcomes for customers, as well as for the process and governance model.

This is where cultural diversity really works at its best: when individuals acknowledge that they are not the expert on a particular culture or on anyone else’s experience but they are willing to listen and learn – including bringing in people who can teach them the way. This is where the magic happens.

SIDHER We service a multicultural customer base, which is best done with a culturally diverse team. Beyond catering to our customers, cultural diversity provides insights to the business and opportunity for organisational mobility and growth to our people. In this context, there is a lot of attention on cultural balance.

Leading a culturally diverse team starts with taking an interest in people individually. This fosters leadership authenticity and strengthens relationships between leaders and their teams. Often, this strength of connection brings out the best in a team.

HOSIE Obviously getting the right people around the table is an important first step. But what do we do after the group has been brought together? To put it another way: what do we do with diversity? When everyone is bringing something unique to the table – whether it is personality, gender, age, cultural background or just different ways of doing things – how do we actually build the bridges that connect these experiences, to allow for collaboration and a richer team outcome in the end? Without considering this, there is a risk that we lose an opportunity for a group to transition into a team.

I work in a team of four spread across three locations. Each of us has had an entirely different career path, is at a different life stage and brings a unique personality to the table. Out of necessity, much of our work is remote from each other and, especially in the early days, this added a degree of complexity when we were trying to establish rapport and a cohesive team environment.

What we found, which should go without saying, is that truly and intentionally listening creates an environment for insights into each of our lives inside and outside work. This required a commitment to be curious and open-minded – when first working together and on an ongoing basis. We continue to work on this today by asking meaningful questions and exploring different ways of doing things.

But it also requires a willingness to share, and I know something that I had to work on as a more junior member of the team was to be a bit more vulnerable and forthright in my conversations with senior leadership.

I believe this is true of any diverse team: recognising that one’s own differences cannot become an asset until they are understood by all team members, and that to be understood requires everyone actively to bring their story to the table. Then we need to be listened to and supported by an inclusive and culturally sensitive workplace environment.

Something to consider moving forward is how we continue to implement strategies that make diversity meaningful in a workplace, rather than just having lots of faces around a table.

JAYANITHIE We have an advantage at ANZ because its global footprint means our workforce is spread across 29 markets. Michelle just shared that she has worked in three different regions during the time that she has been at ANZ. As an ANZ employee, the advantage we have, especially within the institutional bank, is that we get to talk to someone from a different country every day. This is amazing: it means we associate with hundreds of different cultural backgrounds.

I attended a panel conversation recently about unlocking the power of global effectiveness. The speaker was a lady based in Bengaluru. She talked about how, before joining ANZ, she was in a local firm working with colleagues in the local environment. When they went into a conversation, meeting, solution or decision-making context, they already knew what the stakeholders were going to ask, what the feedback was going to be and what the solution was going to look like – because, in a way, the thinking was very one-dimensional.

She added that working in a global team like ANZ leads to conversations that typically not only involve someone from Australia but someone from Australia with a very different ethnic background. As a result, she cannot anticipate what the conversation is going to sound like because participants are going to come with very different experiences. This in turn leads to very different ways of problem solving.

To Millie’s point, we need to make conversations inclusive for all our people to be able to speak up, to be heard and to be listened to, otherwise it is never going to work.

THAKAR I agree, Shari – this is really spot on. I’m British and in my team are a Singaporean, a South African, an Indian and a Chinese national. Two of the team – myself and the South African – are women, the rest are men. During the US election, we had Bloomberg on all day. While there was a general consensus, it was fascinating to observe everyone’s reactions and hear how people from different backgrounds felt about the unfolding events.

By staying curious and genuinely listening to others, one of the team members – who has an incredible knack for analysing situations – helped me see things in a different light. The experience of working with such a diverse group was truly amazing.

VENKATESAN I have witnessed where it has and has not worked. I was working at Lehman Brothers when the financial crisis happened and afterwards we integrated with Nomura in London. I was part of the fixed-income team, and there were 52 of us in the team. Altogether we represented about 19 nationalities. Even though Japanese culture is completely different from Western culture, working together was a breeze purely, in my view, because all of us within the Lehman team came from so many different parts of the world. This meant it was really easy to integrate and work with the Japanese team when they integrated, and we all sat together.

On the other hand, another financial services organisation I have worked with acquired an Asian business, and in this case integration was the hardest I have ever encountered. For example, an email going to the Asian business from the Western business without beginning with “hi,” was taken negatively by the Asian business. It reached out to me to complain about this person as they viewed the email as aggressive.

Based on all the examples I’ve heard, where it has worked well it seems the more people we have from different diversity points – such as age, gender and cultural diversity – the more productive we could be. It is a scale game, in other words. Hopefully we can make this change over time.

PERKOVIC I loved hearing Shari’s lived experience of being an employee at ANZ. Perhaps the challenge for businesses is how to bring this to life more. The reality is that, from an external perspective, most businesses do not look very culturally diverse. This is supported by metrics, which have not moved.

What was always said for gender equity was that women going into senior positions show girls what is possible because ‘you cannot be what you cannot see’. This is the challenge for cultural diversity, too – because it does not feel valued at the decision-making table, by group executives, chief executives and boards.

Perhaps it will be a generational shift: a lot of people entering the workforce or at educational institutions today show a better representation of the Australian community. But if cultural diversity is not there from a visual perspective, how do companies actually demonstrate that they are listening, learning and implementing cultural awarenesses, and the importance in their ESG [environmental, social and governance] policies and their corporate environment?

Put another way, how can businesses demonstrate that it is happening inside when externally it does not look that way and the metrics do not show it either?

A solution may be through more examples that demonstrate to people that they can have a different cultural background, it is valued and, moreover, that they are key decision-makers because they are representative of the business’s client base and customers.

HO Going back to what I was saying earlier, though, cultural diversity is really hard to define. An Asian Australian may have lived in Asia for much of their life or never done so at all, for instance. In my view, someone’s culture cannot really be defined just by their nationality or ethnicity.

PERKOVIC The reality of business is that great things can be happening within companies but cannot be seen. As it is hard to see cultural diversity, perhaps one practical step that could be taken away from this discussion is introducing ourselves in our bios. For instance, instead of only talking about our education, we could also include any cross-cultural experiences. This way, we begin to communicate and educate people on our cultural backgrounds and diverse experiences, because it is not just about our education and previous positions. It is also about the countries we have lived in and the groups we have represented.

DAVE Marianne, I think your suggestion is a good one. But sharing where we are from and what our backgrounds are has historically been a challenging thing to do. Various studies have shown that if a person’s CV has a name that is not Anglo-Celtic, they might be less likely to get an interview. We need to ensure people can be open in a safe way.

I came to Australia in 1971, at a time where there was not much cultural diversity. I know what it is like to have people see you as different and to not have the same cultural norms or networks that others may have. And of course there were differences in our cultural backgrounds. For example, we did not go swimming at the beach in India or learn to surf like kids in Australia. In a professional context, as a young woman, it was not acceptable to go out drinking with male colleagues.

While none of these proved to be issues for me, these examples show that there are cultural differences we need to understand when we work with more diverse teams. We have come a long way but there is a lot more we can do as leaders.

ANJUM A change I would like to see is normalisation of the use of non-anglicised names in the workplace. This has been a big thing for me. My full name is Rudaba, and it was abbreviated a very long time ago – before I started working in the corporate sector. But it would be lovely to be able to embrace it and for people to call each other by their cultural names, the names that they have chosen for themselves or the names that they identify with.

The pronoun conversation has really opened the door to this type of conversation about identity through our names, particularly for those of us who grew up in a less multicultural Australia.

LING I sat on the leadership team of an institutional bank in Australia where I felt the leader was really good at valuing what people said. To Millie’s earlier point, it is important to create a safe place to speak up, but it is also vital to ensure contributions to debates and discussions are perceived as being valued.

What I really loved about working there was that we would all believe we had brilliant ideas, of course; we would put them forward, and the leader would be good at acknowledging them and explaining why they could or could not work – showing that each particular idea had been considered.

She was also particularly good at reframing a decision that had been made and then asking questions like: is this groupthink or are we reacting to an echo chamber? This was about calling out the elephants in the room and making time to consider them.

ANJUM I approach leading a culturally diverse team from a couple of angles. While gender diversity has definitely been a priority for organisations worldwide for some time, I still find myself at different banking events where I’m one of three women, or one of four people of colour, in a room of 30 people. I’m still in a minority no matter how I look at it.

More importantly, there is still a lot of networking being done in scenarios that are not inclusionary. For instance, after hours or with alcohol. There is still networking being done at golf courses, for example, which is an activity that has been inaccessible to people of colour, women and people of low socioeconomic backgrounds for a long time.

When I joined the Women in Treasury committee, its sole aim was to create a networking environment where women could access the same benefits. What also came out of this was the idea that, when we set up networking events, we need to take into account that they cannot all happen after hours or in-person. When talking about gender diversity, other event considerations include things like timing around school holidays.

With cultural diversity, it is really important to consider hybrid working arrangements. Many of us are probably familiar with very senior leadership coming into the office five days a week. But this might be because they all live very close to the office.

When an employee has a young family or is a migrant, they might not be able to afford to live as close to the office. The commute time is a significant drain on their work-life balance and affects how engaged they feel at work. This is something younger generations are asking about a lot more, too.

Having a hybrid working arrangement really helps with diversity, engagement and retention. As does creating events that are not exclusionary and that people can attend.

LY What you’re saying really resonates with me, Rudy, as I identify with almost all the groups you mentioned. When looking at my peers, it’s clear that households can no longer survive on a single income where one person is able to focus on their career while the other takes care of home affairs. It is a joint effort nowadays, which is why it is crucial for employers to consider flexible working arrangements that are equally available to men and women.

The first step to having a culturally diverse workplace is to acknowledge differences in work styles and measures of success. For example, it is ingrained in Asian culture that talking back to anyone older or more senior is considered disrespectful. In Western culture, having robust discussions over a dinner table is considered normal and is reflected in the workplace as well. From a leader’s perspective, having awareness and acknowledging that differences don’t equate to being less than ideal is the first step to encouraging a more culturally diverse workplace.

To take things one step further would be for a manager to show support for work styles where employees may perform best by having more one-on-one conversations with employers – to talk about how they view topics that interest them or by asking the employee for their view on team morale. It is about being aware of anything that can help them feel they have a voice and provide motivation to perform at their best.

I believe this would really help those who are not used to speaking out in a big forum, by developing their confidence to convey their opinions. It is beneficial for the rest of the team to see different perspectives, too. I believe this in turn has benefits for businesses maximising their resources.

DAVE We have to recognise that there is no single intervention and that different approaches are appropriate for different cohorts of people. I agree that being curious and asking questions about different cultural backgrounds is really important. But we also need to actively support people. One of the things I’ve always loved is taking junior colleagues to meetings. It is a safe place for them to observe and learn, and it exposes them to new people and conversations they wouldn’t experience otherwise.

The other thing to recognise is that, as leaders, we make mistakes, too. For example, when I took over as managing director and chief executive of Export Finance Australia (EFA), I asked for meetings with everyone there – so I could hear what was on their minds, what was concerning them and what I needed to do. EFA has a very diverse workforce and some people who had never met a chief executive before asked: “What’s this about? Am I in trouble?”

In other words, while we might think we are doing the right thing, it might not have the reactions we expected. We are not all perfect leaders: we are all learning. Everybody needs to recognise this. The leaders who do not share the same background as oneself are learning too. All we can ask for is curiosity and to build safe places, trust and respect so we can all be on the journey together.

HOSIE I agree. While at risk of perpetuating every Gen Z stereotype, for me values and culture really do underpin everything. A workplace that truly values employee wellbeing and voice is naturally more inclined to have flexible working arrangements, respectful working hours and meaningful benefits. Where hard work and attitude is valued, I believe career advancement and fair pay is more likely to follow.

People are showing they have this perspective when deciding where to work. While I know this is something that is said about Gen Z extensively, I think it is true – and probably for good reason.

In my experience, I know I perform better at work when I have been for a morning ocean swim and I am pursuing my goals in surf lifesaving outside work. These things obviously take time out of my day, but the workplace that recognises this and is flexible about it will ultimately benefit from my improved productivity. For me, enjoying the environment I work in is an absolute priority, as is feeling supported by my leadership.

Feeling that I can have a meaningful voice in the room really matters to me, too. We spend too much of our lives at work for this to not to be the case. I’m a firm believer that each of us is a product of the people we are surrounded by and that, ultimately, the hours one spends at work will affect the person they are. For me, being surrounded by a positive, supportive, generous and hard-working team really sets the example I hope to carry into the other parts of my life.

THAKAR Shari joined ANZ two years ago, when we had just come out of the pandemic, and since then there has been significant progress internally. This includes the establishment of targeted programmes, putting in place a structured talent pipeline within the markets team, and a women in leadership markets programme. We have had three senior positions, including co-head of markets and co-head of FIG, and we now have three women on the senior leadership team in Singapore, all in the last two years.

It is a matter of time, but having the right programmes in place – along with clear KPIs, committed leadership and strong sponsorship – is absolutely essential. There has been a huge effort and an alignment that Shari has helped to drive. I can genuinely say, hand on heart, that there has been a significant turnaround.

Diversity is more than just gender, too – it can be age, culture or lifestyle. The key is to stay adaptable and committed to progress.

GIRARD WiBF is thrilled to welcome everyone, all genders and all cultures to be part of the conversation and solution. It is really exciting for WiBF that we will be celebrating our 25th anniversary in 2025 – it is a big milestone. I mention this because we have witnessed an evolution since it was originally funded by a small group of women in the Brisbane area.

Its main objective was to support women in senior executive and board leadership roles. The organisation quickly expanded, establishing a branch in Sydney in 2000 under the name Women in Finance (NSW) Inc. In 2009, the organisation rebranded to Women in Banking and Finance Incorporated, and a few years later to Women in Banking and Finance Limited, to better reflect its focus on supporting professional development and promoting gender diversity within the banking and finance sectors.

Over the years, the organisation has grown to represent so many corporate members. We have witnessed, as many of you have, the value and importance of bringing forward and speaking about the situation, as well as offering one-on-one sessions, networking opportunities and adapting to feedback from those around us.

We offer lots of training sessions at WiBF, and we get so much feedback about how life-changing it is to have DEI conversations. We also hold diversity roundtables, and we find it valuable to cover various topics and to have different human perspectives; to have everyone coming together and empowering them to bring forward really important conversations.

These might not just be related to women, but a range of topics – for example AI, hybrid leadership and productivity mastery, delegation, stress management and wellbeing, and imposter syndrome. The latter is a typical session that men attend as well. In these sessions, they tell us they are glad that they can attend all the WiBF sessions because they never thought they could.

We have opened our sessions to all genders, which speaks volumes about the world we live in. We want everyone to be a part of the conversation, to bring awareness and empower everyone to feel heard. I could not be more excited to see what the next few years bring. There has already been such an evolution but there is definitely a big need for education and networking to continue, as has been discussed today.