DEY Having worked in India, Hong Kong and Australia, I believe there is a level of unconscious bias in every market, and I agree with the comments Swati and Sangeeta made at the beginning of this conversation that we really need to talk about it more.

We need to give this topic a platform for discussion like what Women in Banking and Finance has done for gender diversity. A lot of people who come to Australia as immigrants are shy to put their hand up and talk about cultural sensitivity. Giving it a platform will let those opinions come out. I say this because immigrants generally feel extremely lucky to be in this country and in the corporate world. They come in as young talent and do very well, but suddenly they hit a ceiling where they find it very difficult to rise to the next level.

My son is a big fan of [Australian cricketer] Usman Khawaja, who has been very vocal about his personal challenges with fitting in. I like to compare the Australian cricket team with the corporate world and the ‘bamboo ceiling’. There is a fascinating analogy here in how the corporate world in Australia is shaping up versus the cricket team. Usman Khawaja has been very vocal on his view about club culture and in raising the question of how to fit in as a south-east Asian person. While it is about talent and skill it is also about the networks and contacts one builds.

It was so refreshing seeing [Australian cricket captain] Pat Cummins in the Ashes, in 2022, when the entire team was celebrating with popping champagne. Usman went to the side as he could not celebrate with the team. Pat got the team to put the champagne aside and was inclusive.

Now, the team has a cultural view that when others from different nationalities are there, they do not celebrate in this way so they can be more inclusive. It is about embracing and understanding cultural biases.

DAVE This is a great story about cultural awareness and sensitivity. As it happens, I’m a multicultural ambassador for Cricket Australia and just a few weeks ago I piloted with them a session on leadership – in particular, how to navigate careers and aspirations when from a south Asian cultural background. Cricket Australia is very focused on getting more representation from south Asian communities – so thank you for raising it, Kunal.

In a corporate context, one of the things that we were mindful of at Export Finance Australia was to make sure our celebrations were in different forms so all our people did not need to exclude themselves, either because there was alcohol or it was after work and was not seen as appropriate.